Please help me to figure out this one. Thanks in advance, any inputs will help.

I'm new to online poker game and I noticed one particular player was playing 6-10 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) games/tables at same time regardless the stakes everyday for the past few months and he always made profit from playing. I'm sure there are professional players out there but the way he bet makes me believe he seems to know outcome. I understand people get lucky sometime but not everyday. For example, I will not "ALL In" trying get the Flush draw when only one card from the flop match to my hole card. I could be wrong but I’m guessing he or she is a “Computer Player” means a Fake player from the gaming company that stealing money from other players or he or she memorized all hands with all different outcomes.

  • On what client did you play? – Raymond Timmermans Aug 11 '18 at 9:13
  • Analyze the outcomes and probability is poker. A fake player from the gaming company would play under different names. – paparazzo Aug 11 '18 at 14:10
  • Mostly on PokerStars then WSOP. Thank you, Raymond! – Kevin2672 Aug 12 '18 at 17:35
  • Your other question is who wins this hand and why? You should not be on $.50/$1 tables. Read some books and play micro stakes until you win. – paparazzo Aug 12 '18 at 19:22
  • 1
    True, very true. Thank you, Paparazzo! my brain was not working properly at that time. – Kevin2672 Aug 13 '18 at 0:15

The major sites subject themselves to audits. They look for valid shuffles, security holes, and anomalies in winning and losing. A number of stacked decks would come up as a not random shuffle. A bad player can lose every day but a good player will not win every day.

There was a site where a bad employee was cheating. He was feeding hole cards to a partner. They noticed the partner was winning too much and then tracked the connection. Internal security was poor that allowed the employee to see the deck.

Not sure they are doing this now but a dynamic shuffle is more secure. The next card is random on demand. Even if the server is hacked they don't know the next card unless they also hacked the shuffle. I am writing a poker server and that is how I do it.

Collusion is problem. Site cannot stop IM, text, or voice. Know what cards are dead is an advantage. If a players knows they are beat they can fold. If one player has a bunch of smart folds to another the software might pick that up.

Look for a site that does not let you pick a table (only stakes).

It would not be in the interest of the site to cheat. They would be found out eventually and lose all customers. There is lot of legal money in running a poker site.

In a live poker room there is also collusion and cheating. It is a lot harder when there are eyes on you.

As a new player you should not be losing $7K in less than a month. You should be playing micro stakes until you show a profit. Don't focus on the player that is winning. Focus on you are losing.

It is called a back door flush draw. It is called a bot.


If you play online poker on big, trusted sites. You are ABSOLUTELY NOT being scammed, cheated etc. You probably won't like my answer. If you give up poker for good, that is fine. It is not for everybody. If you ever come back. Please read my answer.

There are two potential groups that can scam you. 1) the client/site itself, or 2) the people that play on the client independent from the client itself.

1) if you play on big sites you can trust the site completely. They have a reputation to keep up. They already make a hundred times more money on rake than they would by letting their bots play. Or whatever else you can think off. Reputation is everything. It would make no sense to risk it all, for a little bit extra cash.

2) there will always be people who try to get an unfair advantage if money is involved. Through colliding, scamming, writing bots, exploiting bugs in the software. And to be fair, everything can be exploited in theory. But in practice the big sites/clients will try their absolute best to continually improve their software to counter these people. Bots and colliding players are easily spotted and banned. Again reputation is everything. I doubt it, but maybe you will come across a bot or colliding players once or twice in your life. However, it will happen very very rarely.

Poker sites also don't rig the site for bad or good players. It is all fair.

Online poker is just as fair as live poker. You are just as likely to come across colliding players live.

Study hard. Review hands. Buy software to improve and to track your results. By tracking your results you can more easily figure out whether you are truly unlucky, or just playing bad. Have a great mindset. Poker is not an easy game. If you don't try your absolute best, why would you win against players who do?

  • Could you please give a hint on which software to buy to improve or track my results? Thank you. I got beat up with strong hand like Pocket Aces, 3 of kind and Full House all the times. – Kevin2672 Aug 11 '18 at 15:34
  • I use ICMizer and pokertracker – Raymond Timmermans Aug 11 '18 at 16:06
  • Also! I know it doesn't quite give you the same thrill, but please start on the lowest stakes you can find. Then move up slowly. Only play higher stakes from the money that you earned! Gl man! – Raymond Timmermans Aug 11 '18 at 16:33
  • Thank you, Raymond! I normally playing for $.50/$1 and or $1/$2, nothing big really. (After I lost some $ recently, I’m trying to avoid $1/$2 but only $.50/$1) I must improve my skills and hopefully making profit in the future.. – Kevin2672 Aug 12 '18 at 17:47
  • .50/1 is quiet high online. If you can try 0.02/0.05 or 0.05/0.10 – Raymond Timmermans Aug 12 '18 at 18:01

Paparazzo gave a very good answer on why it's not profitable for big companies to cheat that way. That being said, it has happened before (Ultimate Bet). Individual coders can easily understand and/or create bugs in the code to gain some sort of advantage, that being said if you are playing microstakes, it doesn't matter. No one with that level of knowhow is trying to get $2 an hour with that risk (if your winrate is too high, people will notice because online poker is tracked by a lot of data-mining).

However, please note that almost everyone makes claims like that (even in live poker) simply because they don't understand poker or the opponent.

In your case, did the guy go all-in or did he call-in? Did he have any draws? What was your image and his image? A lot of time people don't understand the difference between a donkey-call and a miscalculated hero-call. If someone tanks for 5 minutes, calls you with Ace-high... He's probably not random calling you, he's operating on a false tell or misreading the strength of your hand... etc...

I once put someone on a stone-cold bluff (likely a missed straight draw due to the way the action and betting played out), I called him with Ace-high, he did have the straight-draw and was basically bluffing the river flush. He folded and then I showed my Ace-high and he was like "wtf, idiot player calling with Ace-high". So if this was online, he might believe there was cheating going on "How could you call $300 all-in with Ace high? You must already know my hand!"

Poker is sometimes a very strange game. Sometimes you will see good reg/shark players lay down small flush/full-houses incorrectly against strangers (so they gave him credit) or sometimes you will see them calling all-in with Ace-high. The logic is there, you just have to really think about it to figure out why they made that move (if they are actually good players).


Two laws apply.

Equal distribution of cards: This is achieved with an audited rng that everyone generally talks about and prove stats for.

Fair chance of winning (the MAIN part of the governing laws): This is handled with post flop manipulation. Winning opportunities are distributed based on player win-rate and therefore skews the expected win-rate of the of the hand itself. No one really talks about this bit.

Concentrate on this, not the bots or collusion.

This is the best post I've seen on the wild on this topic:


And I'll throw this in, just because it's weird: www.888.com/news/magazine/card-couting-tips.htm

Disclaimer: Any suggestion that online poker is manipulated attracts PIG (poker industry generated) posters that will feverently vouch against this. However, please remember that without actually working in a software development position at poker site, they are speculating just as much as me or OP from 2+2.


The bad news: if you play poker online, you ARE being cheated. No ifs, ands, or buts. If not by the site, then by other players colluding over the phone, or writing bots, or exploiting bugs in the software.

The good news: most cheaters are idiots, and a good player will probably make money in the long run anyway.

  • Thank you for your comments and feedback. Time for me to give up on playing online poker. No wonder my computer was acting strange lately, I even lost WiFi connection during the game but this never happened before when I normally surfing on the web with the same computer. Lesson learned, I lost more than 7K in less than a month playing on two different sites and I don’t play everyday. Wow, thanks again to work me up. – Kevin2672 Aug 11 '18 at 2:03
  • And just for the sake of full disclosure: I do not play online poker, I do not work for or own stock in any site. Likewise, I do not work for or own stock in any brick-and-mortar casino (though I have worked in casinos for many years, I'm currently a software engineer for an unrelated business). – Lee Daniel Crocker Aug 14 '18 at 0:10

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