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Please help me to figure out this one. Thanks in advance, any inputs will help.

I'm new to online poker game and I noticed one particular player was playing 6-10 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) games/tables at same time regardless the stakes everyday for the past few months and he always made profit from playing. I'm sure there are professional players out there but the way he bet makes me believe he seems to know outcome. I understand people get lucky sometime but not everyday. For example, I will not "ALL In" trying get the Flush draw when only one card from the flop match to my hole card. I could be wrong but I’m guessing he or she is a “Computer Player” means a Fake player from the gaming company that stealing money from other players or he or she memorized all hands with all different outcomes.

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  • 1
    On what client did you play? Aug 11 '18 at 9:13
  • Analyze the outcomes and probability is poker. A fake player from the gaming company would play under different names.
    – paparazzo
    Aug 11 '18 at 14:10
  • Mostly on PokerStars then WSOP. Thank you, Raymond!
    – Kevin2672
    Aug 12 '18 at 17:35
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    Your other question is who wins this hand and why? You should not be on $.50/$1 tables. Read some books and play micro stakes until you win.
    – paparazzo
    Aug 12 '18 at 19:22
  • 1
    True, very true. Thank you, Paparazzo! my brain was not working properly at that time.
    – Kevin2672
    Aug 13 '18 at 0:15
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The major sites subject themselves to audits. They look for valid shuffles, security holes, and anomalies in winning and losing. A number of stacked decks would come up as a not random shuffle. A bad player can lose every day but a good player will not win every day.

There was a site where a bad employee was cheating. He was feeding hole cards to a partner. They noticed the partner was winning too much and then tracked the connection. Internal security was poor that allowed the employee to see the deck.

Not sure they are doing this now but a dynamic shuffle is more secure. The next card is random on demand. Even if the server is hacked they don't know the next card unless they also hacked the shuffle. I am writing a poker server and that is how I do it.

Collusion is problem. Site cannot stop IM, text, or voice. Know what cards are dead is an advantage. If a players knows they are beat they can fold. If one player has a bunch of smart folds to another the software might pick that up.

Look for a site that does not let you pick a table (only stakes).

It would not be in the interest of the site to cheat. They would be found out eventually and lose all customers. There is lot of legal money in running a poker site.

In a live poker room there is also collusion and cheating. It is a lot harder when there are eyes on you.

As a new player you should not be losing $7K in less than a month. You should be playing micro stakes until you show a profit. Don't focus on the player that is winning. Focus on you are losing.

It is called a back door flush draw. It is called a bot.

3

If you play online poker on big, trusted sites. You are ABSOLUTELY NOT being scammed, cheated etc. You probably won't like my answer. If you give up poker for good, that is fine. It is not for everybody. If you ever come back. Please read my answer.

There are two potential groups that can scam you. 1) the client/site itself, or 2) the people that play on the client independent from the client itself.

1) if you play on big sites you can trust the site completely. They have a reputation to keep up. They already make a hundred times more money on rake than they would by letting their bots play. Or whatever else you can think off. Reputation is everything. It would make no sense to risk it all, for a little bit extra cash.

2) there will always be people who try to get an unfair advantage if money is involved. Through colliding, scamming, writing bots, exploiting bugs in the software. And to be fair, everything can be exploited in theory. But in practice the big sites/clients will try their absolute best to continually improve their software to counter these people. Bots and colliding players are easily spotted and banned. Again reputation is everything. I doubt it, but maybe you will come across a bot or colliding players once or twice in your life. However, it will happen very very rarely.

Poker sites also don't rig the site for bad or good players. It is all fair.

Online poker is just as fair as live poker. You are just as likely to come across colliding players live.

Study hard. Review hands. Buy software to improve and to track your results. By tracking your results you can more easily figure out whether you are truly unlucky, or just playing bad. Have a great mindset. Poker is not an easy game. If you don't try your absolute best, why would you win against players who do?

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  • Could you please give a hint on which software to buy to improve or track my results? Thank you. I got beat up with strong hand like Pocket Aces, 3 of kind and Full House all the times.
    – Kevin2672
    Aug 11 '18 at 15:34
  • I use ICMizer and pokertracker Aug 11 '18 at 16:06
  • Also! I know it doesn't quite give you the same thrill, but please start on the lowest stakes you can find. Then move up slowly. Only play higher stakes from the money that you earned! Gl man! Aug 11 '18 at 16:33
  • Thank you, Raymond! I normally playing for $.50/$1 and or $1/$2, nothing big really. (After I lost some $ recently, I’m trying to avoid $1/$2 but only $.50/$1) I must improve my skills and hopefully making profit in the future..
    – Kevin2672
    Aug 12 '18 at 17:47
  • .50/1 is quiet high online. If you can try 0.02/0.05 or 0.05/0.10 Aug 12 '18 at 18:01
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Paparazzo gave a very good answer on why it's not profitable for big companies to cheat that way. That being said, it has happened before (Ultimate Bet). Individual coders can easily understand and/or create bugs in the code to gain some sort of advantage, that being said if you are playing microstakes, it doesn't matter. No one with that level of knowhow is trying to get $2 an hour with that risk (if your winrate is too high, people will notice because online poker is tracked by a lot of data-mining).

However, please note that almost everyone makes claims like that (even in live poker) simply because they don't understand poker or the opponent.

In your case, did the guy go all-in or did he call-in? Did he have any draws? What was your image and his image? A lot of time people don't understand the difference between a donkey-call and a miscalculated hero-call. If someone tanks for 5 minutes, calls you with Ace-high... He's probably not random calling you, he's operating on a false tell or misreading the strength of your hand... etc...

I once put someone on a stone-cold bluff (likely a missed straight draw due to the way the action and betting played out), I called him with Ace-high, he did have the straight-draw and was basically bluffing the river flush. He folded and then I showed my Ace-high and he was like "wtf, idiot player calling with Ace-high". So if this was online, he might believe there was cheating going on "How could you call $300 all-in with Ace high? You must already know my hand!"

Poker is sometimes a very strange game. Sometimes you will see good reg/shark players lay down small flush/full-houses incorrectly against strangers (so they gave him credit) or sometimes you will see them calling all-in with Ace-high. The logic is there, you just have to really think about it to figure out why they made that move (if they are actually good players).

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Two laws apply.

Equal distribution of cards: This is achieved with an audited rng that everyone generally talks about and prove stats for.

Fair chance of winning (the MAIN part of the governing laws): This is handled with post flop manipulation. Winning opportunities are distributed based on player win-rate and therefore skews the expected win-rate of the of the hand itself. No one really talks about this bit.

Concentrate on this, not the bots or collusion.

This is the best post I've seen on the wild on this topic:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/25/probability/inducer-algorithm-equitable-distribution-1411457/

And I'll throw this in, just because it's weird: www.888.com/news/magazine/card-couting-tips.htm

Disclaimer: Any suggestion that online poker is manipulated attracts PIG (poker industry generated) posters that will feverently vouch against this. However, please remember that without actually working in a software development position at poker site, they are speculating just as much as me or OP from 2+2.

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If I might be the devils advocate here I would argue that the developers of all in app purchase games, be it board games, racing games or poker games, are not doing this for the fun of it. They wish to make money off their results. Therefore, as I have observed in every game I have played, that no matter how hard or how often you play, you will at some point be brought to your knees. You can play board games where you will win for a while, but at some point you will always go through a rather long losing streak.You can race like a pro for a while, but at some point, there will be a freak accident or a strange skid to slow you down. And in on line poker, you can go through a winning streak, especially when you first sign up, but eventually and inevitably you will go through very strange losing streaks. I noticed the similarities in 3 different on line poker sites. I submit that there has to be an advantage for the developers or creating these sites would be a total waste of time and money to them. I will always believe that I will be at a disadvantage in any on line in app purchase games.

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Online poker is for sure a scam! the number of one outers hitting, people overplaying there hands like they have AA (only having 2/3 to hit a straight on the flop against AA) are not normal.

Whenever a pot gets important the agressor is 80% of the time winning. Meaning that the idiot who overplays his hand actually get's paid of at the end. The number of times my AA, KK or even a set on the flop got cracked by a hand wich only has 8% winning chance..... I cannot count it anymore. They should fucking ban online poker ! one big scam!

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Yes! Absolutely, I have been playing online poker for years and in the beginning I did play on their cash sites like Party poker, Poker stars and I found out even with the best hands you lose. The odds of your opponent hitting the last card is almost impossible but they manage to get the card and hence you lose that hand. I learned my lesson and never play for real money on the web but I do play for fun on sites like Mega hit, Zynga and World poker tours. I found this on Mega hit whenever you buy chips to play, your losing stats go way higher, so you have to rebuy again as opposed to the free games; so I do believe all the games are rigged to make the owners money. Don’t get me wrong, I do play live cash games too so I know how to calculate the odds.

2
  • You might look, or note that play money games on most sites do not rake and the players are somewhat less skilled. In player money you are also not going to be subject as much to be playing against teams or bots. This makes a huge difference in your return. For me personally these reasons are enough not to play online. I am not saying rather or not the software itself is rigged, I am saying the players cheat enough to make online play sketchy. (and B&M also to an extent, its just easier online to cheat).
    – Jon
    Dec 11 '20 at 21:54
  • Believing online poker is rigged is one thing, proving it is another. Do you have any evidence of cheating?
    – Toby Booth
    Dec 20 '20 at 0:19
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100% fixed. I tested a couple of sites and it didn't matter the stakes or if it was tournament or cash. Every time I had a monster, the opponent would catch a 1 or 2 outer. If I had KK and shoved, A7 would call and either hit a 4 card, A-high flush, an A or 2x7's. Save your money and play live poker.

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The bad news: if you play poker online, you ARE being cheated. No ifs, ands, or buts. If not by the site, then by other players colluding over the phone, or writing bots, or exploiting bugs in the software.

The good news: most cheaters are idiots, and a good player will probably make money in the long run anyway.

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  • Thank you for your comments and feedback. Time for me to give up on playing online poker. No wonder my computer was acting strange lately, I even lost WiFi connection during the game but this never happened before when I normally surfing on the web with the same computer. Lesson learned, I lost more than 7K in less than a month playing on two different sites and I don’t play everyday. Wow, thanks again to work me up.
    – Kevin2672
    Aug 11 '18 at 2:03
  • And just for the sake of full disclosure: I do not play online poker, I do not work for or own stock in any site. Likewise, I do not work for or own stock in any brick-and-mortar casino (though I have worked in casinos for many years, I'm currently a software engineer for an unrelated business). Aug 14 '18 at 0:10

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