3

I have experienced this recently: a player raised 100 over a 60 bet made by another player, but upon doing so, put the 100 chip at the bottom of the 6x10s comprising the initial bet and just barely tilted them over. This caused another player, who indeed was listening to music and did not hear the dealer say 160 raise, to call the initial 60, binding him to also call the 100. After suggesting to the dealer that, perhaps, he should have split the raise into the 60 stack and the 100 next to it, to be more visible, the guy blasted off and I got into an altercation with him and the floor manager, who took the dealers side.

Was I wrong?

  • The dealer had no obligation to do so, and by saying that he didn't do something he should have, which affected the outcome of the game, can be quite a serious accusation. I can sympathise with the dealer. – sakon Sep 9 at 9:25
2

Yes, both the professional dealer and the betting player have a duty to make the high denom chips visible. A professional dealer should stack off the chips the same way a blackjack dealer would. That is, there shouldn't be any color change within a stack vertically [so the eye in the sky can read the stack].

HOWEVER. This has absolutely no bearing on the action. If a person verbally says "raise", it's a raise. The fact the dealer hadn't properly stacked the chips yet means nothing. It's your duty to pay attention.

Pro tip - In NL, the dealer shouldn't count the bet or announce the amount of a bet unless a live player asks for a count. However, that doesn't mean you should allow a jumble of chips to sit on your layout. If a player bets an odd stack, or a bunch or chips - you can start organizing them while the other players act. That is, if a player bets $270 with reds and 5 greens, you should pull the bet in slightly and stack off: greenx4 greenx1 redx20, redx5, redx4

Good luck!

  • This is what I expected. Thanks for taking the time to clarify! – prototorpedo Sep 10 at 11:01
1

If you are listening to music rather than paying attention to the game, that's your fault, not everyone else's. Nobody is forcing you to listen to music at the table, if you are doing it (which in many places would be considered rude, by the way), you are doing itat your own risk. The action was clear and unambiguous, and the dealer said the bet size out loud. You can also look at the pile of chips and realize that there's a 100-chip at the bottom. Or even just ask "how much?" to the dealer.

Even if the biggest chip was split form the rest, a distracted player could still look only at the 6-chip pile and assume it's the whole thing, so I don't see how your idea presents an ultimate solution. Even if it would, there is not (yet) such a rule that forces the dealer to implement it, so what was the point in arguing about it with the floor manager?

  • I never said the dealer should be held responsible for this action. What bothered me was the overall obnoxious attitude of the dealer. I did make a scene out of this, but not because the dealer didn't break the bet: this was merely a question on my behalf, and possibly a suggestion for better handling this kind of situations. I do agree people should pay attention 100% to the game, not watch movies and such, a thing that I look to implement in all my games. What he should be held responsible for is acting like a gorilla, which he totally did, irrespective of me being right or wrong. – prototorpedo Sep 9 at 13:33
  • So, basically, your question has nothing to do with the action, You should try to ask it in Interpersonal Skills Stack Exchange or The Workplace Stack Exchange instead. I just covered the poker-related aspects of the situation – David Sep 9 at 14:01
  • Yes, and I appreciate it. But there is no debate (for me at least) regarding that certain dealers workplace etiquette. All I wanted to know was answered. Thanks! – prototorpedo Sep 9 at 14:11
  • Besides the facts provided, if a player does not listen to the dealer, how can the player know, if a single big chip is a raise or a call? – QEDemonstrandum Sep 9 at 14:31
  • @QEDemonstrandum No, unless he asks for that information again – David Sep 9 at 14:32
0

Poker is a game of observation. It is the player's responsibility to ensure the accuracy of another player's bet regardless of what is stated by the dealer or other players. Even if the player asks for a count and receives incorrect information and then puts the said amount into the pot, the actual action still counts.

You obviously have a very good point, but ultimately the dealer can't be held responsible, so you were wrong.

  • In my home country, which is hardly as civilized as the country in the story is supposed to be, almost always and especially when there are big chips involved (or big stacks but that's understandable) the dealers break down the bet and count it and spell it out loud. I think there is a divergence in manners and etiquette: the dealer in my story never once touched the chips, except the ones in the pot, to shuffle them. When confronted with this the guy said "I do whatever I want", which is false, he does what he is payed for: be a dealer and stfu. So I think the guys there are merely jerks. – prototorpedo Sep 8 at 19:07
  • Indeed he does what he is payed for, but he is payed by the casino, not the players. If you are unhappy with the dealers performance, I would suggest to involve the floor man. I would also suggest to pick another casino, if you do not like the way, the dealers are doing their job. – QEDemonstrandum Sep 9 at 15:40

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