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I was recently in a ten-handed 1/2 NLHE cash game. The table had a decent mix of tight and loose players, but nobody completely crazy. Generally, pre-flop raise to 25 was enough to limit the field to one or two callers, and one of them would just be fishing for a royal flush jackpot. We hadn't seen any pre-flop bets over 30 since the table started (4-5 hours).

I had been playing rock-tight all day, and I'm pretty sure everyone knew it. Before the hand in question, I hadn't played a single hand for nearly an hour other than a few small pre-flop calls that all missed. Then, I was in middle position, had one limper in front, and looked down at K⋄K♥. I thought for about half a second before popping to 40. One guy in late position ("Late"), one of the blinds ("Blind") and the original limper ("Limper") all called, all thinking for about as long as I had. This threw me for a loop, because a raise to 40 alone was unheard of, let alone such a raise getting three callers.

I'd describe everyone in the hand as tight-aggressive (but looser than me), and we all had roughly 300 chips behind except Limper, who had recently won a big pot with a big river bet and had closer to 600.

Flop came J♠8♥3♣. Blind and Limper both checked. I bet 80. Late and Blind called quickly. Limper thought for a second and raised to 160. I hesitated for a while, but ended up calling; so did Late. Blind frowned and mucked.

Turn was 6⋄. Limper bet 120. I'm pretty sure I made the right decision on this, but I'm still kinda salty, so I'd like to see what you guys think I should have done: folded, called or raised.

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  • My guess is blind had a set of 8's and Limper had 2 pair Jacks and 8s...Am I right? If they called quickly I don't anyone had an open ended straight draw
    – CSharper
    May 2, 2014 at 13:19
  • I am confused if the blinds are 1/2 is your opening raise 20 BB ? And regardless is it accurate that on the turn you have 2/3 of your stack in ? If that is the case you have the pot odds to shove vs 2 pair and you simply cannot fold. Since the board is so dry you will be in a bad spot now and then but you have to win this hand 1 in 8 times to be +EV
    – Daniel
    May 3, 2014 at 21:07
  • @Daniel yep, 20BB. It was a weird table, you rarely saw any flops for less than $10 (5BB). I figured people just didn't want to fumble with their $1 chips. Could you explain where you got those pot odds numbers?
    – Pops
    May 4, 2014 at 14:22
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    For the curious: I folded. I made my decision for two reasons: first, I'm new to poker, and have been advised to never take big risks when holding only one pair, at least on the turn and river, because going broke with a single overvalued pair is supposedly a huge newbie error. Second, given the previous betting patterns, I thought it was almost certain that at least one if not both of my opponents would have AA or JJ. Late ended up going all-in against Limper, and his pocket nines didn't hold up against Limper's AJo. Just for extra insult, the river was a K, too.
    – Pops
    May 4, 2014 at 14:27
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    @Pops. You probably took the worst line by calling the min-raise and folding turn. You should either fold to the min-raise or consider yourself pot committed. If the latter, then either jam the min-raise or call off you chips on the turn.
    – nanonerd
    May 15, 2014 at 7:19

4 Answers 4

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This shouldn't even be a debate/question. It's a standard jam. There's nothing else to do here. Your hand is too strong, there are too many missed draws, and so on. You're truly, 100% overthinking this. You have a monster. Get it in. If Villian has a set or weird two-pair, rebuy and move on to the next hand. I've seen too many posts like this. I might be wrong, but you likely jammed and ran into a two pair, J8 most likely, or a set, and started to question your play. Don't let coolers like this get to you.

You are giving people too much credit.

EDIT: Also, I want to point out that if you're at the point where the whole table thinks your so much of a rock/nit that you have to fold an overpair like KK on this board because they're only playing back at you with better, then you're doing something wrong.

You need to take advantage of your image. If the whole table thinks your a nit, play loose. If they think you're a loose maniac, play tight. You shouldn't be playing a fixed strategy that doesn't take into account your image and how everyone else is playing.

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    Totally agree! Also probably you dont need to give that much credit to your image especially if you are tight. Not that many players will take it into consideration when they make a decision.
    – Daniel
    May 3, 2014 at 21:14
  • Quite true. It really depends on the skill level of your opponents. The average live $1/$2 table at your local casino is unlikely to have many players that are not only taking into consideration your image but are also capable of making the appropriate adjustments. It's definitely something to keep in mind though.
    – Brent Morrow
    May 4, 2014 at 2:14
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This is a difficult one, they all clearly have a hand of some description. To be making these kind of bets they have to have some sort of pocket pair like AA, KK(not that likely since you have it, but still possible), QQ, JJ etc. They could also have hands like AKs-A10s and are just trying to spike an Ace.

There are no danger cards on the board that scare me off, so the only hands I am really scared of here are AA and JJ. With the stack you have left I think I would just jam over the top and hope for the best. You have already put in most of your stack you are committed in my opinion!

But then I am not very good at cash and always end up losing my whole BR with stupid decisions :)

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I think that you mucked. Now, that doesn't matter. I think calling the min-raise on the flop was wrong. I would have reraised it just to be sure. If he commits an other reraise, you know your kings are garbage. If he folds, good job, you took the pot. Calling there is very risky since villain will see weakness (calling is almost always weak). What will you do on the turn? If you hesitate even more there, what will you do on the river if he goes crazy? In the past I have stolen many pots from super tight players which I knew that had a QQ+ hand. Just by betting hard and raising, they feel like their QQ+ hand is beaten and so they will muck.

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  • Yeah, I think you're right about the call being a bad move. But given that misplays are going to happen, I am still interested in what the right move would have been there on the turn.
    – Pops
    May 4, 2014 at 14:16
  • as valentin says you have to check your position by beeing the one who pushes. So the others have the hard decision to call / fold / reraise. As long as they only bet and you call you will never know their strengh
    – RayofCommand
    May 6, 2014 at 9:16
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    "If he commits an other reraise, you know your kings are garbage": I think this is very wrong. First of all, if you 3-bet on the flop, the only reasonable sizing is all-in. Second of all, if you 3-bet to less and he 4-bets, you can't possible fold considering the pot odds.
    – greg
    May 12, 2014 at 12:45
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Once you got so much money into the pot pre-flop with such a strong hand, there is almost nothing that can happen postflop that should make you not get to showdown, except if an ace shows up. You'll perhaps have some non-trivial decisions if the flop is say QQJ, or if the flop is QJT, or if the flop is monotone, but in general, your intention is to stack off postflop almost always.

The correct play here was to shove on the turn once the limper called. If you decide to flat on the turn for some reason, then once a safe card comes on the turn, you should be getting all in. Folding here amounts to seeing monsters under the bed.

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