3
  • Don't have position. I'm the BB
  • Got dealt: 5♥ 9♥
  • Aggressive player raises to $3 (as expected, he raises everything to $3 and plays just about every hand, with few getting to showdown).
  • Everybody folds, I call. I wouldn't have called it anybody else had. I understand I probably should've folded here.
  • Flop brings: A♥ 7♠ 8♥
  • I check to him, he bets $6, I call.
  • Turn brings: 4♣
  • I put him on a weak Ace.
  • I check to him again, he bets $8.
  • Bad implied odds, just about break even otherwise. He has about $120 left. I have $55 left.
  • I make a bad decision here, I raise to $16.
  • He shoves. I fold.

So my questions are:

  • Should I have shoved on the turn after he raised me $8? He would've probably folded. And if not, I think the odds are the same:
  • Should I have shoved on the turn instead of checking to him?
  • Should I have called after the raise on the turn or folded?

I know I definitely shouldn't have just raised him $8, very bad decision on my part.

P.S: I had the dealer deal out the last card after I folded, and it was a T♥. I felt like I made the right decision folding..

  • What are the blinds here? $0.50/$1? – Chris Farmer Mar 16 '15 at 18:28
  • @ChrisFarmer: Yep, $.5/1 – Jack K Mar 16 '15 at 20:31
7

Why did you play a hand like this junk in the first place and especially against an aggressive player which you know well keep betting? The probability to hit a flush draw on the flop is about the same as to hit a set (around 11%), although when you're planning to do this with rubbish hand as 95s you need to enter and see the flop cheaply and as much multi-way as possible.

Here, you're heads-up and the other guy raised preflop. I don't know the limits, but since the other guy raised 3$ i assume it's a 0.5$ - 1$ cash game? If yes, then he gave you about 30% pot odds. This isn't much and most of the time you're going to fold on the flop after a Cbet, although when you do fold you prefer to have entered with a lot better odds. I would fold to the pot odds offered to me preflop 100% of the time even with better hands like a low pair or a suited connector. Since i'm not hitting enough of these hands and the aggressor makes folding easy for me (being the only player active), you have an easy answer: fold.

On the Flop you hit your flush draw and also got a gutshot straight draw. Not bad! That means you have 12 outs or about 25% of winning chances for the next card. The Villain Cbet you with a pot-sized bet (6$ on 6.5$ pot) which is not a typical CBet size bet; half-pot is the typical CBet size, although that needs history; perhaps he raises the pot all the time. True, he may have an A or he may also have a high pair. In any case, a pot-sized bet gives you about 33% pot odds. I don't mind calling here against aggros since 25% of winning chances are not so far from 33% pot odds and there's always the chance that he will shut off on the Turn.

The Turn comes a brick and the pot is about 19-20$ if i'm right. He bets 8$ so he gave you about 20%+ pot odds, so you have better odds now then the ones you had on flop so you have to call with a flush draw/gutshot. Your SPR is low at only 2, although you're not really pressed to make a dramatic move by shoving. He gave you good odds, just call. On the other hand, since your SPR is low you don't really have any fold equity so shoving is not really good against a guy who barrels all the way down and has you covered.

Your questions:

  1. I doubt that a guy barreled all the way down he is going to fold to a brick. Are you going to sell a 65x hand here? or a 44 set? That play would succeed if a scare card came, like another A or a third ♥

  2. Also no for the same reasons; you haven't a plausible scenario. Even if you had a set on the flop, the typical play is to re-raise the Turn and not to shove.

  3. In my opinion, calling not only is better, but it's also correct mainly by odds. You should have folded this hand from the very start but along the way it improved to a hand with enough equity. You don't want to fold a hand that you payed worst odds preflop and on flop and want to fold the Turn with better pot odds!

5

I agree with vtzl that this was the wrong hand to defend with, not only because of the bad math of the hand, but it also really messed with your table image with this guy if you had to show this hand down. Once this kind of player sees you show down a hand like that he is coming for you. He will be at your blind and he is upping his aggression every time you limp in a pot.

I am wondering why this guy is playing almost every hand for a raise. Is he a guy on a rush? Is he a guy on a kamikaze mission or is he guy playing a loose fast strategy against a table full of tight players?

If the player is a rush player or kamikaze player they will not tend to fold. The kamikaze don't care what he needs to invest to make a hand and the rush player thinks any hand he plays is going to turn into gold.You got an excellent flop for that particular hand. If this guy is playing a rush or kamikaze, there is really not much to do except figure your outs to draw and draw if he gives you the price as vlzvl suggested.

But if the player is playing a strategy to pick up a lot of small pots with an aggressive raise and follow up bet. Take the lead from him. If you have a drawing hand that would justify calling a pot size bet, make the bet into him instead of calling his bet. Make that ace on the flop look like yours instead of letting him make it look like his.

A player that is just raising and doing a follow up bet to pick up the small pots: unless he has hit something fairly big he is going to back off and let the hand go with a lot more frequency then the other two types. If he is making this play almost every hand, he is pretty much playing random hands and his pre-flop raise is no good indication of the range of cards he might hold. Semi-bluffs into this guy should have better results then check calling him.

This guy is playing loose aggressive against the table, and what needs to be done with him is to play tight and more aggressive. Don't let this player keep the lead pre-flop when you have a strong hand, take the lead from him and let him call bad or leave dead money in the pot. You can't do that playing 9-5 suited, he has an advantage over you if he is playing blind and out of position.

  • I think this is a good commentary on the fact that not all aggressive players are the same, and frequent pre-flop open raising is just a small part of the whole "aggression" landscape. – Chris Farmer Mar 16 '15 at 18:27
  • He definitely wasn't a kamikaze/rush player. Loose, aggressive, but I made him fold a couple of times before this hand. Once with air and a 2x pot bet on the flop (the flop brought a flush that he checked to me). And once with a check/raise on the turn with a pair of 10s on the board that came on the flop that we both checked. The table was definitely tight. I agree that I picked a bad hand. – Jack K Mar 16 '15 at 20:34
  • He didn't limp in ever, which is what made me play this hand. I'd seen him do this to a calling machine (who was out by this point) and go to showdown with low pair. Same betting pattern of 3BB pre-flop, pot raise on flop and 4-6BB raise on the turn. Most of the time if you checked to him, he bet. He was still hard to trap though. – Jack K Mar 16 '15 at 20:37
  • 1
    @JackK If he is hard to trap, then I think you do not try to trap him. You just wait for good hands and move him out of the way. A point I did not specify, is when you are on a draw, you want to take any pot. "A" plan is taking the pot with a bet, "B" plan is taking the pot by making a hand. – Jon Mar 16 '15 at 21:28
2

I think it is marginal to play that from the BB 8-9 suited would be been (maybe) OK
Preflop you were getting 3.5 : 2
A flush has the chance of stacking an aggressive player
You would be playing it for the implied odds
But since you only started the hand with like $65 you don't even have that great of implied odds

You were getting pot odds to call the $6 on the flop based on two card to come but not based on one card to come

On the turn you are not quite getting correct pot odds but you are likely to get paid off on the river
26.50 : 8
OK to call here

Why in the world did you check raise? You are on a draw. You don't need to build pot equity with this guy. He has led out every round. Even if he did just call then it would likely slow him down on the river.

Just call and if you hit the river check again. Hopefully he leads out for $10+ and then you can raise $20+ or even push at that time.

0

You decided to make the call pre-flop, some might consider it wrong but it's also a bluffing opportunity against a player who's trying to pick up all the pots, especially if you've been playing tight before and you're heads up against him. But the bluff should have been made before the flop then if that was your intention all along, a strong 3-bet would probably have ended the action unless he really had something and then you know it right away.

I'm going to consider your options after the pre-flop call has been made and it's in the past.

  • You must decide if you're going to draw for the cards you need or buy the pot, if you show any weakness then you'll loose your opportunity to buy the pot.
  • If you call the flop you've made it clear to him that you've got a hand but you're probably drawing, especially with that kind of flop because you'd normally raise there in order to make it expensive for him to draw at a better hand than he already has. That means that if you're going to bluff at any point after the flop has been dealt it's either on the flop or after some time where he has shown some kind of weakness.
  • If you 3~4-bet on the flop then you're representing a strong hand and he won't call you unless he's a very bad player, he's drawing for a very big hand or he's got a very strong hand already. Most likely you'll win the pot right there if you truly thought he was just trying to steal the pot in the first place.
  • You did call the flop so he knows you has something but he's probably only putting you on a draw so when the blank occurs on the turn he bets again. He's probably putting you on a draw so your story doesn't add up when you re-raise him on the turn so he's probably has a weak ace or something in that category and he's decided that you truly must pay for your draw now and he's putting you on a semi bluff. He was right. If you want to see a river here then you just call, you've lost your bluffing opportunity.
  • The time he shoves the pot is actually $82, you've got $39 left so the fold there was right but again you should have just avoided that situation in the first place since your story didn't add up.

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