# Should the hero call all-in with second best flush in this situation?

The Game: 1/3 NL Hold'Em

The Players: Seat 1 (early position - villain #1): \$95 (won some, lost some)
Seat 6 (villain #2): ~\$300 (doesn't play many hands)
Seat 7 (Hero - late position): \$130 (been having a rough night)

The Situation: Our hero has Qx spades.

Pre-Flop: No raises - our 3 players call \$3.

Flop: As Xs 3s (all spades) - Hero has second nut flush

Seat 1 bets \$5
Seat 6 calls
Hero raises to \$25
Seat 1 calls
Seat 6 calls

Turn: Another Ace
Seat 1 goes all-in for \$67
Seat 6 min-raises to \$134 (which is more than hero has)

Should hero call (thereby going all-in)?

Here's what happened:

Hero thought about it for a little while. With \$102 left and a flush, he loses to a boat or Kx spades. And even if both players have flushes, only one could have the K spades (if either have it). Hero decides that Seat 1 has an ace but no boat - otherwise, Seat 1 probably checks to let the other players bet. Seat 6 is tricky but Hero doesn't want to give up the hand.

Turns out the river is a 5 (not spade). Seat 1 had A-5 so made a boat, and Seat 6 indeed had Kx spades for the better flush. While Seat 1 got lucky, our hero wonders if this was just bad luck or if the min-raise on the turn made it obvious that Seat 6 indeed had Kx spades (or a boat) and hero must lay it down.

Unless the hero has QJ or QT of spades pre-flop, that's when they should have folded.

It appears that the tight player in seat 6 min-raised, just to try and get a call from the hero, expecting a from either a worse flush, or a draw. It's a fairly easy fold, in my opinion.

• Good answer. Even with QJ or QT why raise pre flop. Commented Aug 21, 2016 at 8:52
• There were no raises pre-flop. Commented Aug 26, 2016 at 3:13

Probably fold before the flop.

As for your decision on the turn, I'd suggest a fold. You have V1 who has bet, called a raise, and then bet again (all-in) into 2 people, and you have V2 who has called a bet, called a raise, and then raised an all-in bet even you (who raised the flop!) is still left to act--these are strong indications that you're up against at least one better hand.

The best case scenario I could imagine for you is that one of the other players has the K of spades but still drawing and the other has an ace. In that case, you'll have to avoid one of the remaining spades or any of the cards that make a full house possible. You'd be just over 60% favorite, but keep in mind that that's for a best case scenario.

Given the strengths of the other players' actions, there's a good chance that one has you beat right now and one of the main factors that make this a fold is that you have no outs if you really are behind. A good portion of the time here you are drawing completely dead, so the 60%+ equity you have in the best case scenario doesn't make up enough total equity to justify a call.

Not sure about the notation. Seat 1 should be SB and if all limp-in, where is BB? How much is the pot after pre flop betting?

Calling pre isn't too bad for a strong player. We have one limper, position, and a seemingly weak SB. It's ok to call. But you need to be confident when you get post flop development like this. If you don't (and it seems it is the case), fold pre as default.

Overbet on flop. It's a coordinated flop and you have two opponents (one weak). Make yourself committed, put in \$40 to protect yourself against more dangerous turn/river. Then you have easy decision on turn.

Turn: Hard decision... Yes, more likely than not you are beat. But with 2.5:1 pot odds and I would estimate the possibility that both are shoving/raising with weaker hands to be around 20%, it's close but still a fold. Had you made it \$40 on flop, this would be easy call.

• I think you should be cautious with the mentality of making certain choices solely to make future decisions easier. Poker is about making the most profitable decisions; my opinion is that the best players focus on learning how to handle tough situations--not how to avoid them. As a stupid, extreme example: maybe you want to raise preflop with TT but aren't comfortable with facing reraises--you could raise half your stack and then you have an easy decision if someone reraises all in because you'd be getting 3:1 and they could have AK--but that doesn't mean it was the best play. Commented Aug 26, 2016 at 13:25
• That's a problem because with 100BB you are not committed with TT preflop. Here hero is committed with made flush. The more money you can get in on flop, the better. With the TT example, if you know it's a hard decision for you when your raise gets shoved, then you should just call and play TT as any small pair (with easy decision: set -> shove, no hit -> fold to big bets post flop). Commented Aug 26, 2016 at 13:46
• I get that, I suppose my specific issue that I should have been clear about comes from the last sentence posted (along with "make yourself committed", "then you have an easy decision on turn" and paraphrased "only play the hand if you're confident in post flop play with it"). Just because a past action (like making it \$40) now makes a current decision easier doesn't retro-actively make the past action better. After all, do we really want this to be an easy call? Chances are we're behind. There could be reasons for making it \$40 and you do mention them, but it shouldn't be to make things easy. Commented Aug 26, 2016 at 15:56