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In a no limit holdem game player A, first to act bets $15. Player B raises to $45. Player C places $30 in front of him. The dealer says you are $15 short, player C then declares all in. The floor rules since player C had not completed action, the all in was a legal raise. Did the floor rule correctly?

  • I agree with Grinch91. When chips are thrown in the middle less than the amount that has to be called, with no words said, it is always a call. – Raymond Timmermans Jun 24 '17 at 13:43
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No, the floor is wrong here. It's a call. However with that said, ultimately what the TD says goes in that game, but that's a bad and incorrect ruling.

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  • You are absolutely right, this is a terrible ruling. Player C's action of pushing forward $30 is equivalent to announcing "call". In some circumstances (such as a mistaken announcement by the dealer, unclear betting amount for some other reason) the player might be allowed to fold, forfeiting his $30. But in no case should he be allowed to raise. – Lee Daniel Crocker Jun 26 '17 at 18:39
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Player C places $30 in front of him. a couple of issues here, as it needs to be clarified whether player did know/do or not, but let's figure out and explore possibilities:

  • Were the chips actually in front of him AND over the betting line (OP never said 'thrown' or 'put in the pot') or just 'in front of him' (therefore, not in play) ?
  • If any betting line on the table, was it requiered by the casino/house to use it, according to their local rules/policy ?
  • Were bets placed in front of the player's cards ?
  • Did 'player C' say something before he took the chips ?
  • Was 'player C' aware of the amount of the raise ?

if player C has crossed the line with his chips, it seems like an incorrect ruling, and should have been a call, otherwise, correct ruling is still at stake, as action can be seen as not fully completed. In this case, dealer should not interfere before the player ended his move.

As far as 2005, there already was arguing about the betting line rule (ref: The Hendon Mob)

In some cases, players can be allowed to change their mind (When a player releases chips into the pot, they are committed to completing the bet and must complete the amount. In the case that a raise was made that a player was unaware of, they may reconsider their action if no one else has acted subsequently ref: WSOP tournament rule)

NOTE: the above can be (or not) a stated rule in CG (check local policy)

Related / Reference :

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  • This comment is to do with your point of placing the chips in front and not throwing the chips. AFAIK and from my experience the default standard for automatically binding a bet is chips released and hitting the table surface, regardless of throwing chips into the table or not.To also address your point of a betting line, many places no longer have a betting line, of course many still do but many do not. Now when a betting line exists, the forward motion rule will come into play. Regardless of how a player wants to argue his or her point, and I've heard and seen the arguments, every floor I've – Grinch91 Jun 26 '17 at 17:52
  • ever had has called this a call, because it counteracts the fake-pump shove. I'm fairly certain, regardless of if the chips crossed the betting line if it exists, this should be ruled as forward motion. The player has clearly moved chips in front of his or her stack and released these chips. I will say this is a well researched answer, and ultimately whatever the rules say TDs and Floor staff make mistakes. – Grinch91 Jun 26 '17 at 17:53
  • @Grinch91 : agree with you on most of this, of course, but I wanted to point out some possible issues, OP should clarify and give more facts, as these should help and improve answers. I can be a good ruling from the floor is the raise was unclear or unheard for instance. Might update to make it more clear ? As I'm new here I don't mind getting some good advice too :) – OldPadawan Jun 26 '17 at 17:59
  • @ OldPadawan: oh yeah for sure, I do think your answer is worthwhile and adds some potential gotchas that people might come across. I don't think you need to update to make it more clear, I think it's a fine answer with some alternative points which is good. I gave you a +1 on it as I think it's worthwhile points to make, because you're absolutely correct in certain, very specific situations this might not be a binding call. In general TDs and floors aren't there to punish honest mistakes, they're there to ensure a fair game. – Grinch91 Jun 27 '17 at 10:16
  • thanks for making it clear, as english isn't my native language, I sometimes miss a couple of things / meanings :) – OldPadawan Jun 27 '17 at 10:18

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