1

Environment: local friendly game, no limit tournament rules.

4 players remaining, player 1 is the sole, big blind. Players 2 & 3 mucked their hands and player 4 (dealer) called.

The dealer burns a card, waiting on player 1 to check or raise. Player 1 bet 2500, and player 4 called.

Dealer now burns another card & deals the flop. Player 1 checked, player 4 bet to put Player 1 all in. Player 1 called.

The turn and river are dealt without incident. Player 4 is declared the winner and started collecting chips. Player 1 noticed an extra card in the muck and declared a misdeal.

Is the hand over? Is it a misdeal?

Rule 83 states: if substantial action occurs, a misdeal cannot be declared and the hand must proceed. Substantial Action is either

  • Any 2 actions in turn at least one of which puts chips in the pot (I.e. any 2 actions except 2 checks or 2 folds)
  • Any combinations of three actions intern (check, bet, raise, call, or fold).
Improve this question
2
  • just curious, where is "rule 83" found?
    – Clarko
    Jan 10, 2018 at 2:47
  • As others have noted, yes, once the cards have been bet on, you can't go back and change them. Even with this mistake, there was no unfairness to either player, so no reason to change anything, That's why dealers are very careful to do everything in the right sequence...wait for betting, then burn and turn.
    – Lee Daniel Crocker
    Jan 11, 2018 at 0:52

2 Answers 2

Reset to default
6

Showing the flop alone is substantial action.

You don't get to declare a misdeal after you see the outcome.

The extra burn card does not effect play. It is an unknown card.

Since the back of top card had been exposed another burn after action is complete (pre flop betting) is appropriate.

This could only be a problem if the dealer knows the cards. If it is happening a lot then don't let them deal any more.

Improve this answer
1
  • Spot-on with your point that the extra burn card is irrelevant to the outcome.
    – Nuclear Hoagie
    Jan 9, 2018 at 17:20
3

In this case significant action has occurred, hand is over, player 4 wins.

You'll only ever get a misdeal before the flop, and depending on the cardroom's rules only during certain situations, i.e. card exposed before all players have a single card. I mean unless something really unusual happens, like maybe cheating or something.

Even if the mistake was spotted earlier (i.e. as the dealer put the extra burn down) it would not have been a misdeal. Not exactly sure how a TD or Floor would rule in this case as it depends on the street the extra burn was put down, but if the player spotted it as the extra burn was put down, i.e. before the next card was turned faceup I'd imagine the 'extra' burn card would now be the faceup card.

Improve this answer

Your Answer

By clicking “Post Your Answer”, you agree to our terms of service and acknowledge that you have read and understand our privacy policy and code of conduct.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged or ask your own question.